Is Israel's God a Trinity? by Myron "Mike" Perl a Converted Jew
Identity Marks Of The Messiah by Myron "Mike" Perl a Converted Jew
Questions for Jehovah Witnesses:
According to "Insight" Vol. 2, p. 394, a Jehovah Witness document, Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael. Do you have Scripture to support it?
NWT Hebrews 1:4-6 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellant than theirs. For example, to which one of the angels did he [God] ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father"? And again: I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son"? But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels worship him [Jesus]." Why was the word worshipped changed to obeisance else where in the NWT, but not in Hebrews 1:6?
Who is this verse referring to? - NWT Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counsler, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
NWT John 14:6,7 Jesus said to him" I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you men had known me, you would have known my Father also; from this moment on you know him and have seen him." Does Jesus mean when they were looking at him, they were seeing God the Father?
NWT Deuteronomy 5:14 ""But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God."
NWT Matthew 12:8, "For Lord of the sabbath is what the Son of man is." The Jews condemned Jesus for breaking the sabbath yet Jesus tells them that the sabbath is his.
NWT John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him [Jesus] : "My Lord and my God!". Why didn't Jesus, in the next verse tell Thomas and the others present that he was not God but a god (John 1:1 NWT)? Instead Jesus said in verse 29 "Jesus said to him: Because you have seen and believed? Happy are those who have do not see yet and yet believe."
NWT John 5:17 But he answer them: "My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working." Verse 18, On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Why didn't Jesus tell the Jews that he was not God but a god as your NWT reads in John 1:1?
Holy Spirit, Person or impersonal power?
NWT John 14:26 - But the helper [Comforter, KJV1611], the holy spirit [Holy Ghost, KJV 1611], which the Father will send in my name, that one [he, KJV1611] will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
NWT John 13:13 - However, when that one [he, the Spirit of truth, KJV1611] arrives, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse [himself, KJV1611], but what things he hears he will declare to you the things coming. That one [He, KJV1611] will glorify me, because he will will reveive from what is mine and declare [it] to you.
Why is the commitee that produced the NWT kept anonymous?
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not [NWT] the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:22,23 KJV1611
The "True teachings" of the False Witnesses - http://188.8.131.52/~watchman/articles/trueteachingsoffalsewitnesses.html
"Question: Prove That Jesus Said I am God, Worship Me" Answer: Matthew 15:9 King James Version (KJV) BY THE MOUTH OF JESUS HIMSELF. YES, HIS OWN WORDS, SURPRISE!!! 9 "But in vain they do WORSHIP ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men". I just wanted to prove that Jesus said in HIS OWN WORDS FROM HIS OWN MOUTH IN RED LETTERS, "WORSHIP ME". Therefore, Jesus is God because only God must be worship. READ it for yourself in the Bible.
If you want to expose a JW ask them why Acts 8:37 isnt in their new world Bible and why if there are only 144,000 who go to heaven then why do they even evangelize since it increases competition!? Lol Another warned of false gospel. Any gospel that is works based like Mormonism, JW, SDA and Roman Cultholocism can be immediately discerned as a false gospel.
**IT'S ALL ABOUT JEHOVAH WITNESSES 365 DAYS A YEAR FOR THE WORLD**
Why so many antagonistic videos on Jehovah Witnesses, simple, because the Devil has his army of human fools doing his bidding and fighting his private war against God's church, that's why. The Devil is at war against God's approved church and the world is at war with God's church and you don't know it. In John 5:18 Jesus says ““If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.” The Devil applauses you and others every time you put up another video against the Jehovah Witnesses. You my friend should be wise like the Pharisees and pay attention to what Acts 5:38-39 says (38) Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone, because if this plan or movement is of human origin, it will be overthrown. (39) But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even find yourself opposing God!" See also Acts 15:14 "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first intervened Himself in the world about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name." Yes, that name in ancient Hebrew is YHWH which is rendered as Jehovah in English today. If God doesn't like it, he can find a way to correct or change the name Jehovah or simply take it away from the Jehovah Witnesses. Remember Ecclesiastes 7:1 "A good name is better than a good ointment, and the day of one's death is better than the day of one's birth." See Proverb 22:1 “A name is to be chosen rather than abundant riches.” God's good name and who it’s associated with is important to him and the Gospel being preached under his name should be of great concern to him also. It is the Jehovah Witnesses job to preach the True Gospel worldwide, whether people accept it or not is their affair
They don't celebrate holidays, but they will lead people to hell with their bullshit teachings. The Bible is not your absolute authority if you keep passing the watchtower out, and telling people that only JW know how to interpret the bible.
Ived learned. More of what I thought. I had been wondering. With My GOD MY FATHER. ABBA. N IN JESUS. NAME I ALSO WAS CONVERTED Enfield to relieve the Holy Spirit you know please me up when I change from Catholic To Christianity when I said that the Lord is my savers so is truly true as soon as you get the law to save ur SAVED N COVERED. WITH THE BLOOD SHIELDED. OF SALVATION and Clean stain did that don't mean we don't fall down by His grace we get up again THEIRS POWER. WORD'S. LORD JESUS
J.W do not follow the Torah the laws, they just left my house and I was asking them that. They are just like the average Christian but - the holidays and they call G-D Jehovah they said the first five books in the bible are done with...
IT is written !! 2 Tim 3:16....All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
@ IMJW1000. You ignore the Fact that your own New World Translation says that the Father is The God,Psalms. 90:2 The Son is The God, John.20:28. and the Holy Spirit is The God Acts.5:3-4. You preach against the teachings of the Watchtower Society's own published New World Translation of the Scriptures.thus accordingly you preach Heresy. IMJW1000. and stand self condemned. See Gal.5:3-4, you loser!!! You are the Blind that is leading the Blind into the Lake of Fire called Gehenna. GEORGE
Christmas used to be called Saturnalia, the birthday of the Roman God Saturn. Caesar Constantine worshiped Saturn. When he made Christmas the official religion of Rome, he took his god's birthday and made it Jesus' birthday.
Witnesses and mormons are nothing alike.
George posted, "There cannot be a pantheon of Gods, can there???"
Well, let's see. You worship three distinct persons. That is the definition of polythiest. One who worship more than one person. So, although you claim you do not have a pantheon of gods, you do have a pantheon of persons.
You just don't call them gods, to hide that fact.
Ok. What ever you like is fine by me.
If the Father is "The God" ,Psalm.90:2 The Son is "The God", John 20:28 & the Holy Spirit is "The God," Acts.5:3,4, & there is only "One God" & no other.Isaiah.43:10. There cannot be a pantheon of Gods, can there??? This being so, please explain how the Father who is "The God," Psalm.90:2, the Son who is "The God, John.20:28, & the Holy Spirit who is "The God "Acts.5:3,4 can be "the only God" of Isaiah.43:10, if there is as you say, no Godhead or Trinity??? I await on your educated reply. GEORGE
Read The Watchtower Jan 1,1986, page 13, & you will find it says that some who have been prominent in Jehovah's organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, & child molesting. they also say that over the past year 1985, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshiped, & the greater number of them for practicing immorality check out on these sites what Ray Franz has to say about Bethel & Homosexuality, according to him it was rife!
You really need to read again what I have posted Dem May because It all comes from your own New World Translation, & Kingdom Interlinear. These two books reject the Doctrines of the Watchtower society, & actually support the Doctrines of the Orthodox Christian Church. Please don't run away., There is so much more that we can discuss in a civilized manner that will uncover what is actually Biblical Truth. I feel that you,have been deliberately lied to for Years, and need to see things God's way
It's 130 am here Den May, so I need to get some rest. I will chat to you soon. Please read carefully about What I have said in regards to Deut. 6:4, Rev.3:14, and Colo 1:15. Then perhaps pray about it. Peace!!! GEORGE .
Ok George I think it is pretty evident in the scriptures
First born of ALL creation.
The Father is greater
In Visions of Heaven there is NO trinity. In fact it does not show a Holy Spirit.
The word nor the doctrine is plainly in the Bible.
If you look up the true origin online you can see it originated 2-3 centuries after the Bible was completed."God the Son" or God the HOLY SPIRIT" is not in the Bible
I end my end of this discussion. , it is pretty clear to me and I am amazed you can't see it.
( 1 ) "Firstborn" means “Pre-eminence”, at least according to Scriptures. (1) David was Jesse's 8th Son, Yet God made him His Firstborn. Esau sold his Firstborn birthright for a bowl of lentil soup Gen.25:27-34 , and Reuben lost his position of pre-eminence as the firstborn because he lay with his Fathers Concubine Bilha (Gen. 35:22) who eventually became the mother of his 1/2 brothers Dan and Naph'tali Genesis. 30:3-8.
( 2 ) So the pre-eminence of First Born can be given to whoever God wants to give it irrespective of their lineage in the immediate human family. It can also be sold, and it can also be lost . Jesus is the Preeminent One over all of Creation because He was the creator. John1:1-3. He is the preeminent one over death Because of His Resurrection, and He is Firstborn or Preeminent One of the Church because He is its Head and Cornerstone. And it is His Church. Rom.16:16.
( 3 ) So I cannot find any evidence that supports your claim that the Logos or Christ was a created Angel named Michael. Especially in the Light of John.20:28 in the Kingdom Interlinear!!! Please help me out here, and perhaps you can show me if there is any explicit passage of Scripture that can actually prove that the pre-Incarnate Christ was a created being. I found your reasoning interesting, but in no way conclusive to your claim. Peace!!! GEORGE.
I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar but I know one thing they do not by any means agree. And if evidently can be adjusted to how they think it should be, This is easly seen by looking up these scriptures on BibleGateway how so many Scholars or translators ,translated so differently according to their beliefs in much of the Bible.
But as seen from the great many scriptures I have already sent , He is not a triune God .
Also how would you explain Luke 18:19 ?
George,Of God or By God either way it shows he was the first that God CREATED.
and it agrees with
Colossians 1:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
Colossians 1:15 American Standard Version (ASV)
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
So you are saying it is Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
or Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Gods is one Jehovah
Yeah that makes plenty of sense! HA.
H430 אֱלוֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. is specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article ) of the supreme God Also the Hebrew word H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ekh-awd') adj.1. (properly) united, i.e. one is used in Gen. with Adam and Eve when the TWO became ONE Flesh This type of language allows for the doctrine of the Trinity in the Shemah of Duet.6:4. GEORGE
I all respect Revelation 3:14 has been corrupted in the New World translation because the words "OF GOD" has been deliberately changed to "BY GOD to make it appear that Christ is a created Person. You also overlook the fact that the word "Beginning'' means: That Christ is the ) G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-khay') n Chief, Majistrate, Power, principality, root or rule of all creation . If we replace the word “OF” back where it should be in Rev.3:14 everything comes back into place in John.1:3. GEORGE
, "The LORD our God [from ’Elo·him´] is one LORD."
The plural form of the noun here in Hebrew is the plural of majesty or excellence. (See NAB, St. Joseph Edition, Bible Dictionary, p. 330; also, New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. V, p. 287
It conveys no thought of plurality of persons within a godhead. In similar fashion, at Judges 16:23 when reference is made to the false god Dagon, a form of the title ’elo·him´ is used; the accompanying verb is singular, showing that reference is to just the one god. At Genesis 42:30, Joseph is spoken of as the "lord" (’adho·neh´, the plural of excellence) of Egypt
The Greek language does not have a ‘plural of majesty or excellence.’ So, at Genesis 1:1 the translators of LXX used ho The·os´ (God, singular) as the equivalent of ’Elo·him´. At Mark 12:29, where a reply of Jesus is reproduced in which he quoted Deuteronomy 6:4, the Greek singular ho The·os´ is similarly used.
At Deuteronomy 6:4, the Hebrew text contains the Tetragrammaton twice, and so should more properly read: "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (NW) The nation of Israel, to whom that was stated, did not believe in the Trinity. The Babylonians and the Egyptians worshiped triads of gods, but it was made clear to Israel that Jehovah is different.
You said---They change: "He is the Beginning of the Creation ''OF'' God," to read “He is the Beginning of the Creation “BY ‘’ God”,
Either way it is the SAME thing! HE was created BY god!
You are really grasping for straws here.
Have you not looked up the true root s of the Trinity Doctrine!
JOHN 17:3 Jehovah is the ONY True GOD.
And I guess you passed right over all those other scriptures I sent?
I hope I am coming across in a mild and polite way because that is my intent.
Funny , NOT ONCE is he called "God the son" and yet "God The Father" IS mentioned several times! NOR does it state "God the HOLY Spirit"
You are trying to add something that just is NOT there.
You are basing on an empty foundation my friend, not I. Would you not think if it were the "major Christian teaching" as some say, that it would be clear and straight forward? Yet the teaching nor the word , Trinity or God head is anywhere in the BIble.
It is however in plenty of Pagan teachings.
John.12:41, with Isaiah.6:1 Not say is Jehovah, Remember he is The Son OF GOD. .
Revelations 3:14 You may want to look at biblegateway , it shows quite a few others also. Also see Col 1:15 VERY CLEAR from different translations.
Colossians 1:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
Colossians 1:15 American Standard Version (ASV)
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Hebrews.5:7-10 7 when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death(Offered up prayers to his other self to save him?)
, and was heard because of His godly fear,(fear of SELF?)
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.(TO Other self) 10 called by God as High Priest “Priest and Mediator between Man and WHO? Again Himself or other self)
Are you serious?
Hebrews.5:7-10 only speaks about what Jesus did as Son of Man, but it does not take away fro the fact that Christ is Jehovah God the son, see John.12:41, with Isaiah.6:1 and John.20:28. It appears the you have no real foundation for denying the Deity of Jesus Christ, at all Den May. Have you any better stuff than that you have quoted my friend??? I am still awaiting some answers to my questions also??? GEORGE
( 1 ) The Governing Body of the Watchtower Society has deliberately changed Revelations 3:14, to make it look like the Eternal Christ (Micah 5:2; Heb.1:10-12; 1st John.1:1,2.) is a created being. They do this by changing one little two letter word.
( 2 ) They change: "He is the Beginning of the Creation ''OF'' God," to read “He is the Beginning of the Creation “BY ‘’ God”, thus making it appear that Christ was created. What treachery!! Why do they deliberately destroy the word of Jehovah like this?????. For your information and dealing. GEORGE
Hi Den May! You certainly have thrown a heap of Scripture at me I hope they are relevant to the subject,because it will take time to answer them all .So I will deal with The Shema.first which is Duet 6:4. GEORGE.
( 2 ) According to the Hebrew Scholars who are experts at the ancient languages, such as R.laird Harris GleasonL Archer Jnr, and Bruce K Waltke. The Hebrew word for “ONE” is “Echad ” in the Shema & is used (a) in regards to Adam and Eve being of the one “Echad”Flesh. (Gen.2:24) which includes more than sexual unity. (b) Where the men of Shechem suggest intermarriage with Jacob’s children in order to become one “Echad”” people. Genesis.34:16.
( 3 ) In the famous “SHEMA” of Deut.6:4,”Hear O Israel …The Lord is One. “Echad” the question of diversity within unity, has theological implications. Some scholars have felt that, though “one “ is singular, the usage of the word allows for the doctrine of the Trinity.
( 4 ) While it is true that this doctrine is foreshadowed in the Old Testament, the verse concentrates on the fact that there is one God, and that Israel owes its exclusive loyalty to Him. (Deut.5:9; 6:5.) The New Testament is strictly monotheistic while at the same time teaching diversity in unity. (James.2:19; 1st Corinthians.8:5,6.). Source: Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament
Jesus was Son of man,by virtue of His mother as well as being Son of God because He is Gods only begotten Son.and had no human Father. When He walked the earth as Job said he would, He was subjected to everything that we are, and He took no unfair advantage over us in bringing us back to the Father, by emptying Himself,and destroying the Works of the Devil.Heb.2:14 He was tempted so that he could help those being tempted. Heb.2:18. Christ is The Messiah, Fully God, and fully Man. GEORGE
Well my friend Den May, how about John.12:41 with Isaiah. 6:1. Is this not enforcing the fact that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God the Son as proclaimed by Thomas as being the Lord of us, and the God of us, when he used the definite article in regards to his proclaimation about the Christ,Jesus. Love to here wehat you have to say about this.my friend. Sincerely GEORGE.
PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8 THE INCARNATION SCRIPTURES
( 1 ) Philippians.2:6-8 presumes an object reality. No one could be in the form (Morphe) of God who was not God! The fact that Jesus continued to be God during His state of humiliation, is demonstrated by the present particle (huparchu) “being” in the form of God
( 2 ) Huparchu “Being” (Strongs 5225) involves continuing to be that which one was before, so according to the language of Philippians.2:6-8, the eternal infinite self existent form of God took upon Himself flesh. John.1:1 ((Spiros Zodhiates Th D.) Note Thomas was right when he called Jesus “The Lord of me and The God of me”. John.20:28. You are in violation of Galatians.1:6-9, and you need to abandon the teachings of Charles Taze Russell. Sincerely: George.
Read The Watchtower Jan 1,1986, page 13, and you will find it says that some who have been prominent in Jehovah's organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. they also say that over the past year 1985, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshiped, and the greater number of them for practising immorality check out on these sites what Ray Franz has to say about Bethel and Homosexuality, according to him it was rife!
1 Co 15:24-28*** Eph 1:20-22 Philippians 2:8-9 Col 1:15-18 / 1 Tim 2:5***
2 Tim 4:1 / Heb 1:4 / 2:7 / Hebrews 5:7-10*** 7:24 High Priest and mediator to himself?
It says between Man and God./ 9:11,24 / 10:7,9,12 REV 1:1 Did he in heaven give himself a revelation? Rev 2;27. 7:10 /
You see if you take the entire scriptures into account it makes it VERY plain.
I will end here. Thanks for the exchange but I think we must end here.
The scriptures make it overwhelming that Jesus not Jehovah.
Matt20:23 / Mat 24:36/ 26:39 /MARK 10:18***/10:40 / 13:32 / 14:36 /15:34 referred to My GOD(ref your other statement)Luke 4:8 Look up original LORD was Jehovah.
Luke 18:19 / 22:29 / 24:28 ///John 1:18*** 2:16 why not "OUR HOUSE or MY HOUSE"
John 3:35 / 4:22/ 4:34 / 5:19 / 5:22/ 5:26*** /5:30,36,37 /6:27 / 6:38/6:46 /7:16-18/ 8:28,29/8:42/ 10:18 ,29/11:41 / 12:27,28 / (12:49 /13:16)14:28*** 15:10 /15:15/15:26/
John 17:3*** 17:12 / 10:17***(your other statement) ACTS 2;33/5:31/7:55/1Co2:16/8:6***
If Jesus were Almighty God, How was he tempted by Satan? If it were a temptation, then it would have to be something he could have given in to. So how could Satan tempt the Almighty? And if he had succumbed, what would that do to a trinity?
2 Gods in Heaven and one ruled by Satan? He also said I live on every utterance from my Father. (so would that be by his own words? Was he Obedient to himself.?
Did he learn from himself?Did he command himself?
Deut 6:4 ,Mal 2:10,Mr 10:18,Ro 3:29,40 Re 3:14,Col 1:15,Isa 44:6,Php 2:5,6 / Da4:35 / Php 2:10,11 ( look up who is speaking about when it says Lord and God, the ORIGINAL text had God's name YHWH, Jehovah in English about 7,000 time and when translations remove it , that ads to the confusion)
John 14:28,5:19,Heb 5:8 Jehovah is Christ Head and God 1Co 20:17 Re 1:6
which " early Church fathers" are you speaking of?
He directly called Jehovah my Father. People can try and twist it how they may.
You well know that you can take almost any subject and try to make it fit. Example some folks try to say God came in a space ship etc. And point to Ecclesiastes. but we all know that is hog wash. But stand back for a min and think and ponder on the straight forward answer from the scriptures.
( 1 ) Hi Den May. If when Thomas called Christ "The Lord of me and The God of me," in the original Koine Greek of that time, he used the definite article "The" twice. This being the case, then according to the society's own rules in regards to John 1:1, Thomas was actually calling Jesus Christ , Jehovah,God the Son, When he called Jesus "The Lord of me and The God of me."
( 2 ) If as suggested this was only an expression of astonishment, then this cannot be so because Thomas was a devout Jew, and would not have done or said something that would have been paramount to blasphemy in the presence of Christ." Also if Thomas was not correct in calling Christ " The Lord of me and The God of me" and Christ did not rebuke him for saying that, then Christ would have sinned.
( 3 ) But Christ did not rebuke Thomas, but said. "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.". From this statement of Jesus Christ, then we can only conclude that what Thomas said was absolute truth, that Christ is both "The Lord of us, and The God of us." and thus he was in fact Jehovah Jesus God the Son, At least that is what my Kingdom Interlinear is revealing to me. GEORGE
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth. Psalm.83:18
Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that Jehovah he is GOD; there is none else besides him. Deut.4:35
It is a good thing to give thanks unto Jehovah, And to sing praises unto thy name, O Most High. Psalm.92:1
Jesus said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth. Matt.11:25
There is one GOD and Father of all, who is over all and in all. Ephesians.4:6
Hi Den May. WHY DID JESUS CALL THE FATHER HIS GOD?
( 1 ) Notice how Christ never says our Father or our God except when He taught the apostles how to pray the Lords Prayer. He always keeps His unique relationship with His Father separate from ours, because he is the Only Begotten of the Father (Deity). His God is His God only by virtue of the fact of his ( human) mother.
( 2 ) The early Church fathers brought attention to this verse,you mention as expressly designed to distinguish between what God is to Him and to us---“His Father essentially, ours not so: our God essentially, His not so: His God only in connection with us: our God only in connection with Him.” How do you feel about this Den May? GEORGE
“I am the true God.” (Ge 31:11-13; Jg 2:1-5) Thomas may therefore have spoken to Jesus as “my God” in this sense, acknowledging or confessing Jesus as the representative and spokesman of the true God. Whatever the case, it is certain that Thomas’ words do not contradict the clear statement he himself had heard Jesus make, namely, “The Father is greater than I am.”—Joh 14:28.
On various occasions when individuals were visited or addressed by an angelic messenger of Jehovah, the individuals, or at times the Bible writer setting out the account, responded to or spoke of that angelic messenger as though he were Jehovah God. p. 56(Compare Ge 16:7-11, 13; 18:1-5, 22-33; 32:24-30; Jg 6:11-15; 13:20-22.) This was because the angelic messenger was acting for Jehovah as his representative, speaking in his name, perhaps using the first person singular pronoun, and even saying
So, Thomas may have addressed Jesus as “my God” in the sense of Jesus’ being “a god” though not the Almighty God, not “the only true God,” to whom Thomas had often heard Jesus pray. (Joh 17:1-3) Or he may have addressed Jesus as “my God” in a way similar to expressions made by his forefathers, recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures, with which Thomas was familiar.
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,”there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (Joh 20:17 John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.
Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message
On the occasion of Jesus’ appearance to Thomas and the other apostles, which had removed Thomas’ doubts of Jesus’ resurrection, the now-convinced Thomas exclaimed to Jesus: “My Lord and my God! [literally “The Lord of me and the God (ho The·os′) of me!”].” (Joh 20:24-29)
How do you feel about Jonn.20:28, which says Christ "The Lord," and "The God" in your Kingdom Interlinear, noting of course that the definite article "The" is used twice in this passage of Scripture. In understanding of course that you call Christ "a god" because of the absence of the definite article in John.1:1. All I can say is "come on" Den May, "you can't have your cake and eat it too, can you." Yes??? GEORGE
If he resurrected his human body ,would he not be taking back that sacrifice?
Sorry getting late and tired. Enjoy the friendly conversation.
We may and likely will, have to agree to disagree, but I enjoy the discussion, I think if we are afraid to question our own understanding then there is an issue. We can correct our understanding or be strengthened in our faith of what we do understand.
Yes he did empty himself (from the spirit form and did obey his father.)
That is my point .same nature, thought and mind? be commanded by other self.
Sent by self? Note the other scriptures earlier >1 Corinthians 15:27-28
He while in Heaven is still subject to the Father.
The form of God or a spirit , not that he WAS God. That is why he did not give consideration of a seizure. If he WERE almighty God then that would not even have been state. (Take a seizure from himself?)
Be yes , in the form of God (as a spirit creature) just as in the likeness of man as you say, he was in the Likeness of God.( you are stretching to add the "Fully God in Essence"
I think you say it here yourself, He was a man when on earth, a perfect one.
( 1 ) I take a Great interest in what you are saying Den May, and understand where you are coming from, but I take note that Philippians .1:5-11 says that Christ existed in the Form of God, and if He was in the Form of God, wouldn't that which is said to be in the form of God, be fully God in essence, just as being in the form of a servant in the likeness of men would also make Christ to be fully man in essence just like you and me?
( 2 ) On emptied Himself and not clinging to His right to be equal with God, did not Christ, by emptying Himself of His Divine Glory, (John.17:5) become a servant in the likeness of men, and in the all giving love between Him and His Father, did He not make himself in subjection to the Father even to obedience to death on a cross to save you and me, an all of humanity?
( 3 ) And after the human body of Christ was literally bought to life again in the Resurrection, did He not ascended in the Flesh into Heaven where He was Glorified? Luke.24:36-51? This being so, would He s not still be in subjection to the Father in all giving Love in His resurrected flesh? Is this not exactly what the Scriptures teach about the Christ my friend? And is this not in fact the Beautiful truth that is coming from our own New World Translation? GEORGE
But , they ONLY depict either Jehovah or Jesus and ALWAYS separate and never the Holy Spirit. And NEVER a trinity, In fact Jesus sitting at the Right hand of, NEVER part of.
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.
Jesus also was Obedient to , was commanded by and sent by, Not himself or another part of himself but from GOD. obedient himself?
Several times Jesus stated very clearly "The Father is Greater than I"
Jesus NEVER lied , nor did he ad an exception to this statement.
Others later try to say "what he meant was?" and trying to change his straight forward statement.
Have you ever noticed the term "God The Father" is mentioned several times.
However "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit" is not stated even once?
Would you not think that in at least one of the visions of Heaven they would depict a triune God?
Read Philippians 1:5-11 note .He did not try to be equal with God.
Was obedient (to whom would God have to be obedient to? Himself?
God exalted him , If he were Almighty God how would that be possible to be any greater?
Colossians 1:15 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all[a] creation
1 Corinthians 15:27-28.Note very clear.
GOD put all things under his feet, Except for God himself and then .And Christ subjected to God.(In Heaven)
We both agree that Jesus is the Mighty God of Isaiah.9:6, but in what way does this make Christ a lesser God, especially when the Father is called the Mighty God also in Isaiah.10:21?. In the light of John 17:5 where Christ shared the Fathers Glory, and claiming He was one with the Father.John.10:30, would that not make Him equal with the Father before emptying Himself and being found in the likeness of men so that He could die for our sins on a cross at Calvary? Please help me on this. GEORGE
( 1 ) Oops Den May!!! The Jews never said Christ was making himself "a god" at all. This is what was actually said in the Original Greek. John 10:33
ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι· περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομεν σε ἀλλὰ περὶ βλασφημίας, καὶ ὅτι συ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς σεαυτὸν θεόν.Please check this out in your Kingdom Interlinear.
( 2 ) When translated,John.10:33 actually says this:"The Jews answered him saying For a good work we stone thee not but for blasphemy and because that thou being a man makest thyself God." There is no "a god " here in the original Greek This was added by the Watchtower Society that denies the Biblical fact that Christ is The Lord and The God of us.according to John.20:28. Do you understand my friend. GEORGE
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Bricolajul a ajuns in Romania in urma cu aproximativ 10 ani, insa in Statele Unite si in statele occidentale acest concept este mai vechi, si isi are originile la inceputul anilor ’50. Bricolajul se refera la capacitatea oamenilor de a crea sau repara diverse obiecte fara a apela la ajutor specializat.
Primul catalog de bricolaj pentru renovarea locuintei a aparut in 1968. Acesta a nascut conceptul de bricolaj care sta la baza lanturilor de magazine din zilele noastre. De la covoare si perdele, pana la mobilier si prefabricate, bricolajul se refera la tot ce inseamna renovarea unei locuinte in aceasta acceptiune.
Pe orlo.ro gasesti toate cataloagele de bricolaj, de la cei mai importanti comercianti. Catalog Dedeman, Catalog Praktiker, Catalog Baumax, Catalog Bricostore, Catalog Ambient si altii.
In Romania retelele de magazine pentru bricolaj sau extins rapid, cel mai important comerciant din acest segment este Dedeman, care a pornit din orasul Bacau si a ajuns sa detina magazine in cele mai importante orase din tara.